VOTE

seabird wrote:Crap guys think about no shiter over the last four years so why now. I think sometimes we forget that we live in a country where the leftest lefty and the rightest righty are much better than anywhere eles in the world. There is no great plan to take over the world no plan to turn us all into commies. This is America where hate is killing us. Yes I'm a democrat but Ihope the best for all of America Red Blue I don't fucking care. I understand being pissed off and Magic will be giving me shit for 4 more years. Starting today if we don't work together we are fucked. I would go over point by point with any of you Except Magic LOL not the gay guys smokin weed thing but economic stuff. You must admit one thing you could have picked a better guy to run against Obama Romney's fliping and flopping made even the right take pause. From Kennedy to raygun the American people want someone who sticks by his guns weather you agree with them or not Mitt did not do that. In two year we will make another run at the house and we will all bitch at each other but until then it's............ TIME FOR FOOTBALL !!!!

See the part I highlighted? Obama cannot work together with anyone. His idea of compromise is "my way or the highway". Like he told congress in the early months of 2009 after his election: "The election's over. I won. Elections have consequences." Yep, that sure helped get things off to a good start. Then, when discussing Obamacare in the early days, his chief of staff Rohm Emanuel (now the wonderful mayor of Chicago) said "We've got the votes. Fuck'em."

The country turned a corner yesterday. And, I'm afraid there's no turning back.

Okay I asked you to stop but here we go. First Obama made every attempt to work with them(Republicans) keeping the Bush tax cuts is one example. You seem to think we forget that it was supply side econmoics that got ushere as it always does. Your buddies on the right said no to revenue to the point of shutting down the government. It is the tea party who will not work with anyone even their fellow republicans. Now to your buddy mitt his plan simply did not add up every economist said it would not add up. The only support were from people working on his campaign. You see there was a time when the cut cut plan didn't hurt the avg. joe like you and me. Now it does fire dept police jobs are falling off not because of Obama because of the cut cut cut. We have gone to far. History tells us supply side does not work outside of a classroom Coolige Harding and Hoover, Raygun and Bush 1 then W all supply siders all busted the debit and killed jobs. Blue you really didn't say anything you just claimed something. Again I get your pissed about Obama but it won't help. I think we need to look at facts. Try factcheck.org or check numbers with the CBO that's where I get my info I watch both CNN and MSNBC to hear what the talking heads have to say. Blue we may not agree on the path but we both want best for Ammerica. Make claims all you want I want facts to play with it's more fun. Again I do politics for a living( my first campaign was 1968) so I don't want to work here and people like Magic I love like a brother I refuse to talk politics with him we just know we disagree so that's the way I will keep it.

Mighty:

You asked what Bush had to do with the past 4 years? Come on man, he started a snowball so fast down a mountain, and got his ass out of the white house. I wished a Rep would have won 4 years ago, NOBODY was getting us out of the mess, Bush put us in.

Colon Powell said it best, Bush put us so deep in a recession, that some call it a depression.

Bush knew Fannie & Freddie were in deep shit, Bush knew that GM & Ford, were on the verge of bankruptcy..Bush had one agenda, Ignore our country, full steam ahead on the war for oil..which he also failed at.

They had it on FOX yesterday AM, 53% of Americans at the exit polls still blame Bush for where we are at yesterday, they didnt ask ME or it would have been 53.1

Both of you have my sympathies if you refuse to acknowledge where this country is headed. I'm done here.

Blue I worry about someone who does not use facts.

Cravn, yeah, Bush deserves his share of the blame.


But you have to understand one thing......the reason for the financial meltdown in '07 and '08 was because of the housing bubble that popped. And that housing bubble was begun by democrats and supported by republicans....this idea that owning a house wasn't a priviledge to be earned, but an entitlement from the government.

As a result, the democrats lliterally told banks to pass out mortgages to almost ANYBODY who asked for one......many banks didn't even run a credit and employment check on a person asking for a mortgage.

There were people on wefare and food stamps being given 150k loans, who then made interest-only payments.


So.....that entire farse was a democrat idea. But the republicans, including Bush, went along with it.


Now, it's true Obama walked into a bad situation......but all he did was make it even WORSE:

Almost 7 trillion more in debt in just 4 years.

A destructive health care takeover that will bring the economy back into recession and will cost countless jobs as businesses and companies lay people off because they can't afford to employ them because of Obamacare. This has already begun now, all over the country. Look for "official" unemployment to be over 10% by the end of next year, probably by next summer....but the actual number will be well over 20%.

Obama spent hundreds of billions of "stimulus" money and has almost NOTHING to show for it. No jobs, nothing. Sure, he bailed out GM that saved some jobs in the short-term, but overall, Obama took a bad situation 4 years ago and made it much worse.


So the point is, Bush had nothing to do with what Obama has done the last 4 years.

seabird wrote:Blue I worry about someone who does not use facts.

1...2...3 Take a deep breath. The man means well, Blue. He really does. 1...2...3

seabird wrote:Blue I worry about someone who does not use facts.

Maybe you're referring to your impression of Romney as one who did not use facts. True. But neither did/does Obama. Politicians are born liars. I accept that. If you're talking about me, here's a fact:

Last month (October) was the first month of the current fiscal year for our government. We borrowed an additional $200 billion. One month. $200 billion. There are 12 months in a year. If we continue on that pace, the added federal debt will be $2.4 trillion for this fiscal year alone. Add that to the current debt of $16.25 trillion. Then consider that the interest payment on that national debt is currently $455 billion per year.

The idiots in Washington (and that would include Obama) are about to try to negotiate the pending "fiscal cliff" issue (they will find another way to "kick the can down the road") and, some time in late January early February, they will once again need to approve raising the national debt ceiling (Harry Reid is floating a $3+ trillion dollar proposal at this point).

Obama had better learn to lead like a president is supposed to lead. And this means negotiating, selling, arm twisting, compromising and some times being willing to eat crow to get results. From my observation of the man his first four years he's not good at any of these things (Read Woodward's "The Price of Politics"). Obama's a finger pointer and blame dodger and I suspect it will continue as he and Harry try to deal with what they perceive to be intransigence from the House. During his campaign, he and uncle Joe tore into Republicans pretty hard --- "Gonna put you all back in chains!", "Vote for revenge!", etc. His rhetoric and politicking have driven a wedge in this country and polarized it through his class warfare drivel. Now he's all of a sudden gonna need some cooperation from those very same people. What are the odds he'll get it? Of course, then it can all be the Tea Party's fault because, for politicians like Obama, it all comes down to identifying whose fault something is as opposed to really fixing the problems for the country.

I don't need your worry, Seabird. Worry about the country and the sad state of "leadership" it seems willing to elect.

By the way......saying that we are all headed into a "bleak and dismal future" was probably kind of.......harsh


But hey.....it was immediately after the election results, so cut me some slack.


But I am convinced that Obamacare will send us back into recession and much higher unemployment next year.....so I guess that if you are one of the people who are put out of work because of Obamacare, then I guess your outlook would indeed be "bleak and dismal".

Why hsn't any of this happened ? we had four years to fuck it up ? That both sides addto the problem but we have cut too much gone to far. Your fear in Obama care is based in what you think not what you know. Tell me when supply side has worked ? How did we get to the fiscal cliff ? We put everything on the table and the "tea Party " would not give one cent in taxes. So when you blame make sure you read up on what happened. FYI we didn't start the class war the rich have been waging war since the 80's. The differance in income between rich and poor is at it's biggest since the 1930's. When someone works 40 hours a week and still needs help that's war. Do I think both side are full of shit ? Yes but I disagree with supply side econ and I can give examples through out history to back up the fact it does not work. Tax cuts need to be targeted to the middle class unlike the 1% they will reinvest not because they want to but because the have too. Again I think both sides are to blame but the GOP or the supply side way out will not work. But until both side give up the all or nothing plan and get back to work. Blue factcheck.org

A few facts Deficit shrank from 8.7 % in 2011 to 7.0 in 2012.
Over the last four years Dow up 70%
Standard and poors up 81%
NADSDAQ UP 119%
Family income has gone up for the first time link on CBO web page
Insititute for supply managment was at 34.9 when Obama took office now it is at 51.5 above 50 means economic growth.
Consumer Confidence Board was at 70.3 it was at 37.7 when he took office so it has grown by 86 %
CBO talks about debit held over from Bush's war as unpaid and unknown.

Life in the liberal bubble. I'm done...no more comments from me. Feel free to restart this conversation in February when your man has once again failed to lead.

If you're really into political give and take, go to this site, register, and join the slamming. More libs are needed there.

http://z3.invisionfree.com/Political_Deathmatch/index.php

You do what the CBO is right ? factcheck had an org by it not a com because no one paid for their answers. So I guess that's my bubble. Blue yes I would love to debate it with you in February. Will you be wearing your tin-foil hat ? I will with one rule we don't get pissed at each other. I think you do a hell of job with Bookies and you seem like a smart guy who could be fun to cuss a bit. So Good Luck this weekend not to good though.

Seabird, those stats you posted are an illusion, made possible by driving this country trillions more in debt the last 4 years, and trillions more the next 4 years.


Big goverment Nanny State created this disaster. The "new demographics" of this country want big government Nanny to take care of them. It will not. It will, instead, give them misery. The money has to come from somewhere. But the "new demograpics" is uneducated and inexperienced, and doesn't understand where that money comes from and how it's created. They think the money is "there". Well, guess what......the money is NOT "there". The money is nowhere.

The "new demograpics" will have to actually FEEL the pain before they will learn.



And the pain is.......coming.



Soon.




The democrats may have had a good bead on the "new demographics", and knew how to play them, but the democrat strategy is extremely short sighted and limited to only immediate power and control. Ultimately, they have already failed.


Conservative Limited Government will return, which is who we actually are as a Nation from our Founding......but not until enough PAIN and SUFFERING is endured.


So Seabird....check THOSE facts

Okay blue so your not willing to play nice. This is what's wrong with the right and why you lost the election. Facts man you can't dispute them so you discount them. That is the sad example of what wrong. You see Blue you can have your own opinons but not your own facts. Facts like ACA will cut the debit by by 210 billion between 2012 & 2021. Again I'm not sure you understand who the CBO is but their information is based in fact. It is hard to debate someone who does not understand the facts. You make claims which just are untrue and you have no facts to back them up. I check my facts and I stand by them because there are how you say....FACTS. Blue you give no facts that's the problem. I understand you have heard a bunch of thing over the last four years but try factcheck.org and log onto the CBO web site. Blue the CBO has been crunching numbers a long time and they have member from both side working there with objective outcome their only job. The numbers at the CBO are not skewed to support one side or the other that's why you need to go there and see what the facts are. If not what's the point your going to go on on about how Obama's going to destroy this country with no facts to support you argument it really stops being fun when I give you facts and I get back what ifs and your opinon

You know whats really comical is the right is blaming Obama for the market dropping 400 points on wednesday and thursday, yet it was caused by the Repubs selling off...WOW just wow, and yet they dont want to hear how the market slumped after 9/11 when our country was lead by the trouble maker himself..

seabird wrote:Okay blue so your not willing to play nice. This is what's wrong with the right and why you lost the election. Facts man you can't dispute them so you discount them. That is the sad example of what wrong. You see Blue you can have your own opinons but not your own facts. Facts like ACA will cut the debit by by 210 billion between 2012 & 2021. Again I'm not sure you understand who the CBO is but their information is based in fact. It is hard to debate someone who does not understand the facts. You make claims which just are untrue and you have no facts to back them up. I check my facts and I stand by them because there are how you say....FACTS. Blue you give no facts that's the problem. I understand you have heard a bunch of thing over the last four years but try factcheck.org and log onto the CBO web site. Blue the CBO has been crunching numbers a long time and they have member from both side working there with objective outcome their only job. The numbers at the CBO are not skewed to support one side or the other that's why you need to go there and see what the facts are. If not what's the point your going to go on on about how Obama's going to destroy this country with no facts to support you argument it really stops being fun when I give you facts and I get back what ifs and your opinon

First of all, I think you're responding to Mighty's post since I didn't go into detail on anything about the "Affordable Care Act". So, STFU on who's playing nice. You're so freakin' bent on facts it's unbelievable. Well, like accountants can pretty much make the numbers do whatever they like, so can you and your ilk.

Don't you understand it when I say I'm finished arguing with you? It'll clearly go nowhere (much like our country under liberal leadership) so what's the point? You and your "man" got the keys to the kingdom. Now run with it. Doesn't matter what we "conservatives" think, right? Go for it and enjoy the ride, man, and quit feeling like you need to justify your pick. Things are gonna be so freakin' marvelous we won't be able to stand it. I'm going golfing!!

cravnravn wrote:You know whats really comical is the right is blaming Obama for the market dropping 400 points on wednesday and thursday, yet it was caused by the Repubs selling off...WOW just wow, and yet they dont want to hear how the market slumped after 9/11 when our country was lead by the trouble maker himself..

The market sell off was generally attributed to investors (and that would include Democrats, CravnRavn) and the uncertainty about the pending "fiscal cliff" and the likelihood that capital gains taxes will be raised from their current 15%. If I'm heavy into stocks and I'm thinking of selling (for whatever reason), I'm gonna do that now while I know the capital gains impact. I'm not gonna wait and have the government take a bigger chunk in taxes.

Trust your President, Cravn. He'll take care of you, I'm sure.

LOL



I just spent the last 10 minutes writing an awesome post, but then decided to delete it.







You guys would have loved it

mighty_colts wrote:LOL

I just spent the last 10 minutes writing an awesome post, but then decided to delete it.

You guys would have loved it

Seabird: You really need to get to this site (The Old Monday Night Football gang plus many new ones) to argue your political stances.

http://z3.invisionfree.com/Political_Deathmatch/index.php

You're welcome to join too, Mighty. We'd love to have you.

Sorry, Blue........


This ain't like the Old Days, like back on the venerable Political Board at ESPN.


Back then, there were no rules. Nothing held me back.


However.......things are different now, at least for me.


These days, I have to be careful of my words

Also, notice how nobody replied to my posts




Fear

Blue sorry for miss tagging the post. I hope you enjoy your game of golf. We don't live in a kingdom do we ? Cliff is such a cool word will you be usuing all year ? I'm sorry to all you who voted for R&R. This election became very personal to me. My wife Brenda was diagnoused with cancer almost four years ago. While the first round of Chemo seemed to get rid of her cancer it came back in her bones. We were sent to Seattle work with the Fred Hutchtion cancer center and the UW. We were told her only hope was a stem cell transplant. The wanted to do both types of transplants but a little bump in the road a thing called a lifetime cap. I very happy to say my wife as magic will tell you is doing great. Now where are we lifetime cap pre-exicting condition if that's not a reason to support Obamacare I don't know what is. So when I get heated defending our prez I think that cast a bit of light on it. That and I grew up in a union house. My dad was a union leader in Califorina working with Jerry Brown's dad when he was Governor. My Greandfather died in the railway strikes of the 1900. So I was a Union Democrat before I could walk. And I can do math..... Oh shit that wasn't nice. I respect your points a view weather I disagree with you or not. I just have a passion for things Democratic.

WTF? I leave here for a week and a half and just look at the bunch of you... tsk tsk tsk.

Politics, religion and... what's the third?

Everyone is entitled to their belief. That's what makes this place kinda cool and where everyone seems to want to be.

Football (preferably Colts football ), gentlemen. Nothing good can come from most anything else here...

Cravn started the thread!!