VOTE

A few facts Deficit shrank from 8.7 % in 2011 to 7.0 in 2012.
Over the last four years Dow up 70%
Standard and poors up 81%
NADSDAQ UP 119%
Family income has gone up for the first time link on CBO web page
Insititute for supply managment was at 34.9 when Obama took office now it is at 51.5 above 50 means economic growth.
Consumer Confidence Board was at 70.3 it was at 37.7 when he took office so it has grown by 86 %
CBO talks about debit held over from Bush's war as unpaid and unknown.

Life in the liberal bubble. I'm done...no more comments from me. Feel free to restart this conversation in February when your man has once again failed to lead.

If you're really into political give and take, go to this site, register, and join the slamming. More libs are needed there.

http://z3.invisionfree.com/Political_Deathmatch/index.php

You do what the CBO is right ? factcheck had an org by it not a com because no one paid for their answers. So I guess that's my bubble. Blue yes I would love to debate it with you in February. Will you be wearing your tin-foil hat ? I will with one rule we don't get pissed at each other. I think you do a hell of job with Bookies and you seem like a smart guy who could be fun to cuss a bit. So Good Luck this weekend not to good though.

Seabird, those stats you posted are an illusion, made possible by driving this country trillions more in debt the last 4 years, and trillions more the next 4 years.


Big goverment Nanny State created this disaster. The "new demographics" of this country want big government Nanny to take care of them. It will not. It will, instead, give them misery. The money has to come from somewhere. But the "new demograpics" is uneducated and inexperienced, and doesn't understand where that money comes from and how it's created. They think the money is "there". Well, guess what......the money is NOT "there". The money is nowhere.

The "new demograpics" will have to actually FEEL the pain before they will learn.



And the pain is.......coming.



Soon.




The democrats may have had a good bead on the "new demographics", and knew how to play them, but the democrat strategy is extremely short sighted and limited to only immediate power and control. Ultimately, they have already failed.


Conservative Limited Government will return, which is who we actually are as a Nation from our Founding......but not until enough PAIN and SUFFERING is endured.


So Seabird....check THOSE facts

Okay blue so your not willing to play nice. This is what's wrong with the right and why you lost the election. Facts man you can't dispute them so you discount them. That is the sad example of what wrong. You see Blue you can have your own opinons but not your own facts. Facts like ACA will cut the debit by by 210 billion between 2012 & 2021. Again I'm not sure you understand who the CBO is but their information is based in fact. It is hard to debate someone who does not understand the facts. You make claims which just are untrue and you have no facts to back them up. I check my facts and I stand by them because there are how you say....FACTS. Blue you give no facts that's the problem. I understand you have heard a bunch of thing over the last four years but try factcheck.org and log onto the CBO web site. Blue the CBO has been crunching numbers a long time and they have member from both side working there with objective outcome their only job. The numbers at the CBO are not skewed to support one side or the other that's why you need to go there and see what the facts are. If not what's the point your going to go on on about how Obama's going to destroy this country with no facts to support you argument it really stops being fun when I give you facts and I get back what ifs and your opinon

You know whats really comical is the right is blaming Obama for the market dropping 400 points on wednesday and thursday, yet it was caused by the Repubs selling off...WOW just wow, and yet they dont want to hear how the market slumped after 9/11 when our country was lead by the trouble maker himself..

seabird wrote:Okay blue so your not willing to play nice. This is what's wrong with the right and why you lost the election. Facts man you can't dispute them so you discount them. That is the sad example of what wrong. You see Blue you can have your own opinons but not your own facts. Facts like ACA will cut the debit by by 210 billion between 2012 & 2021. Again I'm not sure you understand who the CBO is but their information is based in fact. It is hard to debate someone who does not understand the facts. You make claims which just are untrue and you have no facts to back them up. I check my facts and I stand by them because there are how you say....FACTS. Blue you give no facts that's the problem. I understand you have heard a bunch of thing over the last four years but try factcheck.org and log onto the CBO web site. Blue the CBO has been crunching numbers a long time and they have member from both side working there with objective outcome their only job. The numbers at the CBO are not skewed to support one side or the other that's why you need to go there and see what the facts are. If not what's the point your going to go on on about how Obama's going to destroy this country with no facts to support you argument it really stops being fun when I give you facts and I get back what ifs and your opinon

First of all, I think you're responding to Mighty's post since I didn't go into detail on anything about the "Affordable Care Act". So, STFU on who's playing nice. You're so freakin' bent on facts it's unbelievable. Well, like accountants can pretty much make the numbers do whatever they like, so can you and your ilk.

Don't you understand it when I say I'm finished arguing with you? It'll clearly go nowhere (much like our country under liberal leadership) so what's the point? You and your "man" got the keys to the kingdom. Now run with it. Doesn't matter what we "conservatives" think, right? Go for it and enjoy the ride, man, and quit feeling like you need to justify your pick. Things are gonna be so freakin' marvelous we won't be able to stand it. I'm going golfing!!

cravnravn wrote:You know whats really comical is the right is blaming Obama for the market dropping 400 points on wednesday and thursday, yet it was caused by the Repubs selling off...WOW just wow, and yet they dont want to hear how the market slumped after 9/11 when our country was lead by the trouble maker himself..

The market sell off was generally attributed to investors (and that would include Democrats, CravnRavn) and the uncertainty about the pending "fiscal cliff" and the likelihood that capital gains taxes will be raised from their current 15%. If I'm heavy into stocks and I'm thinking of selling (for whatever reason), I'm gonna do that now while I know the capital gains impact. I'm not gonna wait and have the government take a bigger chunk in taxes.

Trust your President, Cravn. He'll take care of you, I'm sure.

LOL



I just spent the last 10 minutes writing an awesome post, but then decided to delete it.







You guys would have loved it

mighty_colts wrote:LOL

I just spent the last 10 minutes writing an awesome post, but then decided to delete it.

You guys would have loved it

Seabird: You really need to get to this site (The Old Monday Night Football gang plus many new ones) to argue your political stances.

http://z3.invisionfree.com/Political_Deathmatch/index.php

You're welcome to join too, Mighty. We'd love to have you.

Sorry, Blue........


This ain't like the Old Days, like back on the venerable Political Board at ESPN.


Back then, there were no rules. Nothing held me back.


However.......things are different now, at least for me.


These days, I have to be careful of my words

Also, notice how nobody replied to my posts




Fear

Blue sorry for miss tagging the post. I hope you enjoy your game of golf. We don't live in a kingdom do we ? Cliff is such a cool word will you be usuing all year ? I'm sorry to all you who voted for R&R. This election became very personal to me. My wife Brenda was diagnoused with cancer almost four years ago. While the first round of Chemo seemed to get rid of her cancer it came back in her bones. We were sent to Seattle work with the Fred Hutchtion cancer center and the UW. We were told her only hope was a stem cell transplant. The wanted to do both types of transplants but a little bump in the road a thing called a lifetime cap. I very happy to say my wife as magic will tell you is doing great. Now where are we lifetime cap pre-exicting condition if that's not a reason to support Obamacare I don't know what is. So when I get heated defending our prez I think that cast a bit of light on it. That and I grew up in a union house. My dad was a union leader in Califorina working with Jerry Brown's dad when he was Governor. My Greandfather died in the railway strikes of the 1900. So I was a Union Democrat before I could walk. And I can do math..... Oh shit that wasn't nice. I respect your points a view weather I disagree with you or not. I just have a passion for things Democratic.

WTF? I leave here for a week and a half and just look at the bunch of you... tsk tsk tsk.

Politics, religion and... what's the third?

Everyone is entitled to their belief. That's what makes this place kinda cool and where everyone seems to want to be.

Football (preferably Colts football ), gentlemen. Nothing good can come from most anything else here...

Cravn started the thread!!

BlueShoes1 wrote:Cravn started the thread!!

ALWAYS a dirty bird at the bottom of everythng...

Below is a pasted article I just read. I highlight the main points that I myself have made in this thread, as well as some GOOD ideas we need to consider:


______________________________________________

Obama expects the Republicans to give into his tax-hike demands. “I’m pretty confident that Republicans would not hold middle-class taxes hostage in trying to protect tax cuts for high-income individuals,” Obama told Barbara Walters in a recent interview.

What else can they do? If they don’t go along, taxes will go up on everybody, and the Republicans will be blamed. Obama will then push for a middle-class tax cut, for which he’ll get the credit, even though it won’t be a tax cut. It will only take us back to George W. Bush’s tax cuts.

The Republicans should do the unexpected. Don’t govern by the GOP playbook. Propose an across-the-board tax cut for everybody. In addition, they should call for a ten-percent across-the-board cut in spending. No exceptions, not even for the military.

How should the Republicans position a call for tax cuts? Keep insisting that our debt problem is not the result of falling revenues because of lower tax revenues but of increased spending. The facts are on the side of the Republicans.

The unemployment rate is said to be down to 7.7 percent. Obama is selling the American people on the belief that his policies are working. What is not being calculated is under-employment and the number of people who have stopped looking for work. That number is more than14 percent.

Point out that the majority of new jobs are government jobs. That’s what’s keeping the “official” unemployment number down.

Paul Kengor, writing in the American Spectator, identifies the sleight of hand:

“The numbers show a massive increase in government jobs created over the last five months — 621,000, to be exact, dwarfing private-sector job growth. Those new government jobs account for a staggering 73% of overall job growth. In all, it means that 20.6 million citizens now work for government, out of 143 million people employed in America — or one in seven Americans.”

Every one of these government jobs is a direct tax-payer subsidy to the Democrat Party.

The Democrats keep telling us that we should go back to the Clinton era of prosperity. What they and the media never mention is that it was the Republicans, under House Majority Leader Newt Gingrich, that cut government spending. Clinton fought the Republicans at every turn:

“It was Bill Clinton who, during the big budget fight in 1995, had to submit not one, not two, but five budgets until he begrudgingly matched the GOP’s balanced-budget plan. In fact, during the height of the budget wars in the summer of 1995, the Clinton administration admitted that ‘balancing the budget is not one of our top priorities.’”

The Republicans are also big spenders, just not as big as Democrats. The next unpredictable thing the Republicans need to do is repent of their profligate spending ways. Not only should they take an oath to cut taxes; but they should take an oath not to propose a single penny in new spending for at least ten years.

Do the unexpected.

______________________________________________



Not bad.

The Republicans are also big spenders, just not as big as Democrats. The next unpredictable thing the Republicans need to do is repent of their profligate spending ways. Not only should they take an oath to cut taxes; but they should take an oath not to propose a single penny in new spending for at least ten years.


Awwww BULLSHIT, written by a Republican I see...16 years of the Bush Family spending..

I don't see where a cut in spending by the military wouldn't be automatic... I mean we're pulling-out over there, right? Without taking on any more stupid and ill-advised fights, how can they not spend less?

Personally, with all the grief and the wide ranging issues here, within our own borders, I don't care if some god-forsaken town in Pakistan or Iran or wherever doesn't have clean drinking water or schools for their kids. That hell-hole region has been riddled by corruption and ruled by the dude with the most women in their harem longer than the US of A has existed.
Get the hell out, screw the oil, and lets get ourselves right before we worry about fixing other people's problems. Bye now.

True, we can't afford to police the world or to engage in fights that cost hundreds of billions, but we DO need to maintain a very powerful military presence around the world. That gives us a lot of clout in foreign policy.





ie; edited a point of grammar, last sentence.

ColtsKurt wrote:I don't see where a cut in spending by the military wouldn't be automatic... I mean we're pulling-out over there, right? Without taking on any more stupid and ill-advised fights, how can they not spend less?

Personally, with all the grief and the wide ranging issues here, within our own borders, I don't care if some god-forsaken town in Pakistan or Iran or wherever doesn't have clean drinking water or schools for their kids. That hell-hole region has been riddled by corruption and ruled by the dude with the most women in their harem longer than the US of A has existed.
Get the hell out, screw the oil, and lets get ourselves right before we worry about fixing other people's problems. Bye now.

I agree that there is a LOT of room for cuts in defense budget. Having said that, ending the war in Afghanistan is not going to save us any money at all since both wars have been essentially financed by borrowing. So, it might be OK to say that winding down the war will reduce future BORROWING (and its associated interest rate upon repayment) but it's really a false statement to say that it would reduce the deficit (as it stands now). The politicians love to say ending the wars will cut our deficits but what they REALLY are saying is that it will reduce the rate at which we continue to borrow. Obama has been notorious with this misdirection.

Any cuts to defense have a corresponding impact on the economy -- perhaps resulting in base closures which upsets local economies that rely on those base populations; by reducing government contracts -- perhaps causing companies that make things like armor, weapons, uniforms, and pretty much anything the defense department procures to cut back production. I'm not saying there shouldn't be defense department cuts but there are political and economic consequences when defense budgets are cut and such cuts would certainly impact unemployment. You'll hear the representatives and senators from states where base down-sizings occur screaming on behalf of all of those who've come to depend on the Defense Department as a significant part of their economy.

cravnravn wrote:The Republicans are also big spenders, just not as big as Democrats. The next unpredictable thing the Republicans need to do is repent of their profligate spending ways. Not only should they take an oath to cut taxes; but they should take an oath not to propose a single penny in new spending for at least ten years.


Awwww BULLSHIT, written by a Republican I see...16 years of the Bush Family spending..

Cripes, Cravn...where do you come up with 16 years? W was in for 8 and his dad (going back 20 years here, right?) was in for 4. That's 12. And, like a good blinded-by-Obama democrat you put all the blame on Bush and his Daddy. Which party controlled Congress during most of "W" years? How about GHW? Just sayin'. It's a total cop-out to fall back on the blame Bush BS at this point. Your man had two years of TOTAL control of the government (WH, House and Senate) and he wasted that away on his healthcare abomination. They COULD have cleaned up the tax code, they COULD have restored tax rates, they COULD have handled immigration, they COULD have pulled out of the war fronts. BUT THEY DIDN"T DO THAT yet somehow now, 4 years later, you give Barry and his minions a pass. TOTAL BS.

The Republicans are finished unless they give OBAMA everything he's asking for and finally allow him and his jockstrap sniffers to OWN the mess they're created and will only make worse. The simpletons in this nation who have a "Let the other guy pay" mentality won't see the truth until it's really, really obvious and painful. Bottom line: Some day the shit's gonna really hit the fan and Obama's failure to be any sort of leader will be one very big cause.

Forgive me the first rat badtard was vp for 4 years

cravnravn wrote:Forgive me the first rat badtard was vp for 4 years

8 years rookie

8 years VP for Reagan and President for the following 4 years

But you can always lean on Jimmy the Peanut farmer and Clinton the fat girl driller.